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Black White Gay Guys



ARMSTRONG: Well, I will say I had a few issues with Mannie's original piece. She kind of brought up some things about gay men not being - not having to disclose their sexuality in a way that black women, you know - you see we're black, you can't...I'm not really with that. I think that's kind of an old mindset. But I have a lot of issue with some of the pushback pieces that were basically, you know, saying because they don't like what Mannie had to say, that she is wrong or it doesn't happen to her. And a lot of the people who wrote this - these pieces - weren't people who have to deal with someone coming up saying, hey girl, hey sister, how you doing? - in the kind of Shanequa voice. And until that happens to, and until you're put in a position where someone wants to talk to you about twerking because they've decided oh, you're a black woman - that's what you're about, and so we're going to be best friends. Until you have to respond to that, I don't think you could kind of tear down her argument or her experience or invalidate it because you don't like it.




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GRAHAM: It is an argument that I've heard a lot over the years. There's a lot of validity to it. And I think you're absolutely right, Bridget, in that until you can acknowledge that this is painful in some ways, you can't get beyond the beginning of the conversation. One of my favorite responses was from Michelle Garcia, who's the - I think the managing editor of The Advocate magazine. And she's black, female, lesbian. And she...


GRAHAM: Yes, yes, a gay news magazine. She points out that, you know, between the poles of outsider solidarity, in which, you know, gay men and black women have some experiences of being marginalized in common, even if they're not identical, and on the other end the kind of oppression Olympics, in which people say, no, I have it much worse than you; therefore, you know, you can't talk to me, there's a common - there's a middle ground where, you know, a little mutual support might be welcome.


And it is, I think, very, very hard for a lot of people, particularly in the millennial generation, to recognize what kind of privilege we come to the table with. And so I felt like, as a white person, the takeaway for me was, like, that I need to be constantly challenging myself with my privilege and constantly understand what I am coming to society with an advantage in, that maybe not everybody else is. And I think that that's an inherently uncomfortable thing to do. And it makes you have to step out of yourself a little bit. So I guess, for me, I was thinking a lot about that and where this discomfort lies for a lot of people.


MARTIN: Well, just to go on, the piece isn't just about, like, Beyonce and weaves and, like, assuming that all black women know how to twerk and want to teach you. But it's also about things like, you know...Another paragraph in the piece says, you know, black people can't have anything; any of these things include, but aren't limited to, a general sense of physical safety, comfort with law enforcement, adequate funding and appreciation for black spaces like schools and neighborhoods, appropriate venues for our voices to be heard about criticism of issues without our race going on trial because of it - which was interesting because one of the responders to this piece that's also gotten a lot of attention said, well, a lot of you all do talk like that, which has, I think, set off a lot of people - a lot of people. Michael, what about you? What about you?


ARCENEAUX: I think, honestly, this is one of these situations where I feel like we could have had a really good discussion, but the teacher picked the wrong person in the class, so all hell broke loose. Respectfully, I understand that she's in college, but I felt like that was a deeply flawed piece. And that has to do a little bit with the editing because on one end, she's talking about appropriation and white, gay men allegedly stealing - white, gay men stealing from black females. But there aren't really specific examples. What I took away from the piece was that she has a problem with certain, white men approaching her and being very stereotypical, which - that is a legitimate complaint. And that's something to discuss.


But, you know, as a gay, black man, I see gay, black, male culture being, like, bitten all the time. And I kind of constantly talk about it. But I think, ultimately, the greater point about this whole appropriation argument that keeps going back and forth is that people want to be seen. And in her case, she just typically wants to be respected and, you know, be treated as an individual, which is fine.


You know, 'cause there are some white, gay men who say - I think Perez Hilton said this a couple months ago on Twitter, that he - inside, he is a black woman. And, you know, there are certain, white, gay men that say that. And they think it's cute, but that's, you know, problematic. Particularly, there's a lot of frustration going around just in general, culturally and racially.


But I just felt like it was a deeply flawed piece. And I just wish it kind of would've been tweaked more 'cause I think it's kind of one of those, like, tell them why you're mad, son, sub-genre of online literature now, where people kind of just rant, rant, rant. It doesn't really let you out. It's like, honestly - and there was a Time response piece on there from a white, gay guy who said, white, gay men, as a group, could be the truest friends black women can have in American society. And that literally made me bust out laughing 'cause I'm like, based on what? - because, to be honest, a lot of white, gay men don't include black, gay men. So what makes you think they're - you know, they're going to be even better to you?


As Tray said, it was about, you know, the block and the hood and this gangster. And he wants to do better, but the hood won't let him. And in the end, we have to learn this lesson from his life that, you know, the black man has it bad. Like, that was the storyline. It was very flat. It was something you have seen before. None of the characters even felt like they'd been to the hood, let alone, you know, were of the hood.


She was pretty - she doesn't seem to have been too happy about it, saying, you know - but Fox insisted Oliver will have an expanded role. Now, this has gotten a lot of attention because, you know, Oliver is 53 and African-American. Erin Andrews is white and in her thirties. Sarah, you are saying briefly, if you would, that you're not surprised. You're not a huge sports fan, either, but you weren't surprised. Thoughts about it?


VENTRE: Right. Right. I'm not hugely surprised. I think that it does not take a lot of sports-watching to know that the people who are on TV talking about sports who are women look a very particular way. And often they're very young and often they're white and often they're blonde and often they have big breasts. So I don't - I guess - and I've - I mean, this is a clear double standard, right? Like the men who are reporting on sports do not need to be sort of photogenic or, you know, conventionally good-looking in a way that women do in order to be on TV. So I was not surprised. It seems like obvious ageism slash...


This paper investigates the black/white gay male couple to discern if the partners are happy, economically compatible, and well adjusted to each other. A survey was conducted of 27 participants in black/white male couples. Some of the respondents were recruited from the 22 chapters of BWMT (Black and White Men Together), which has approximately 1,400 members.


These are just a few stories that illustrate the effects of racism within online dating communities comprising mostly gay men. Queer men of color have fewer options in online dating than queer white men.


Data suggests these stories are not uncommon or unique. Based on data published by OkTrends, a blog produced by OkCupid, white gay men respond more often to OkCupid messages from other white men than from men of color. They respond to messages from other white men 44% of the time but respond only 37.3% of the time to men of color.


White gay men also respond less frequently to messages in general than gay men of color. On OkCupid white gay men respond to messages from all races at an average rate of 41.4%, but gay men of color respond to messages from all races at an average rate of 49.3%.


Ironically, even though white gay men respond to messages in general less frequently than gay men of color they fail to attract the highest rate of responses to the messages they send. Middle Eastern gay men, on average, will receive about 48 responses for every 100 messages they send, while white gay men will receive an average of 45. By contrast, Black gay men will receive about 36.


Response rates vary by race less among lesbian women on OkCupid than gay men. White lesbian women respond to OkCupid messages from other white women 49% of the time but respond to messages from women of color 47.6% of the time (excluding response rate to Indian women due to small sample). White lesbian women respond to women of color 2.4% less often than to white women, but white gay men respond to men of color 6.7% less often than to white men.


It is troubling to see racial hierarchies reified in online queer dating spaces because queer people should know better. Queerness does not give whites a pass to be openly racist. Most queer whites know the pain of social marginalization, yet they marginalize queer people of color in online dating communities. I want to live in a pluralistic world, where whiteness holds the same value as all other amalgams of race, ethnicity, and culture.


This language is so pervasive on the app that websites such as Douchebags of Grindr and hashtags like #grindrwhileblack can be used to find countless examples of the abusive language that men use against people of color.


Prior research suggests that within the LGBT population, child-rearing is much more common among racial and ethnic minorities, a finding that is substantiated by the current data. More than 41% of Hispanic and African-American LGBT women, along with 38% of Asian LGBT women, are raising children, compared with 28% of white LGBT women. Some of this reflects the younger average ages of racial and ethnic groups in the U.S. 041b061a72


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